Episode 30, available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube


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“Shame is the internalized belief that I'm defective and unlovable. And most of us have some degree of it whenever we get defensive or hide anything about ourselves or seek approval, or don't risk anything, because we might fail or look foolish.”

Today's episode of Keep Talking features author, therapist, coach, and educator Robert Glover. During the conversation, Robert talks about his personal life, men and dating, the male need for the tribe, admirable and toxic masculine traits, positive emotional tension, his views on what makes men both attractive and repellent to women, and what's limiting male development in modern society. He gives practical advice to men to become more authentic, and to parents and potential parents for raising good men and boys.

About Robert Glover (quote from Wikipedia):

"Dr. Robert Glover is the author of No More Mr. Nice Guy, and has over 30 years experience as a therapist, coach, educator, and public speaker."

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Time Stamps:

(00:00) Intro
(00:51) Get to know Robert Glover
(01:44) Robert's early life
(08:58) A nice guy's beliefs and identities are rooted in childhood
(19:53) Characteristics of a nice guy
(29:36) Advice for nice guys to become more attractive to other people and more authentic to themselves
(41:49) Unappealing traits of a nice guy
(49:23) Positive emotional tension
(50:02) How men can become better versions of themselves
(59:56) Positive aspects of masculinity
(01:05:21) Advice for parents or potential parents for raising good men and boys
(01:12:40) Advice for men who've lost connection to their capital "S" self to become more authentic


“Anything that feels uncomfortable to a child – they're hungry, they don't get fed, they have a dirty diaper, and they don't get changed, a cold, and they don't get held up, or parents are fighting or arguing or there's other traumas or just stressors in the environment, the child internalizes that that could mean death. And they internalize that they are the cause of it.”

“We all internalize some beliefs about ourselves in the world, store them up emotionally in that real primitive part of our brain.”

“Every human being goes through the uncomfortable experiences they have as a child with the survival and defense mechanism of trying to manage and avoid uncomfortable feelings and try to prevent the things that will cause them to happen again, in the future. We all grow up to be teenagers, and adults (are) still doing those things. And with 100% unconsciousness, that's actually happening to us. So that is what happens to everybody. And that's what's behind the nice guy syndrome. As as we internalize this belief system (of) I caused dad to get angry, I caused mom and dad to fight, or I caused mom to be sad, or I caused them to leave me, it's all unconscious emotional internalization. Therefore, there must be something wrong with me, I better hide that, I better become something different to get my needs, get loved and not get abandoned.”

“Shame is the internalized belief that I'm defective and unlovable. And most of us have some degree of it whenever we get defensive or hide anything about ourselves or seek approval, or don't risk anything, because we might fail or look foolish.”

“I did most of my recovery in groups; I'm still in a men's program. I've been in a men's program for about four years. And I still practice revealing myself.”

“I'm comfortable in my own skin. I live life on my terms. I'm real, I'm authentic.”

“All of our feminine ancestors, we all grew up in a tribal situation. Our feminine ancestors all grew up with feared masterful warriors, not little boys seeking mommy's approval. And so anything that a man does, trying to get a woman's approval is gonna feel repulsive to her.”

“I've come to see that the boundaries are what allow people to get close to each other and that the best boundaries invite everybody into a higher consciousness of what's going on in this interaction between us.”

“Not everything about the patriarchy was bad. A lot of it was about being protective and caring towards vulnerable people, women and children, but it was misused as well. Then I think feminism came along and reacted to that, and...men went back the other way.”

“What the commonality I see is that men are seeking, whether they know it or not...(is) a greater connection with men, tribal initiation. And out of that, I think is a growing consciousness of what it means to be an authentic male, an integrated man, a powerful man that doesn't abuse others, a confident man, that isn't arrogant.”

“Just enjoy every little bit of (a boy infant), and see if you can find ways to encourage what's called his differentiation. Differentiation is where people are encouraged to be their own selves, to ask themselves what do they want. If he is into music, find ways to support that; if he's into sports, find ways to do that, if he's into coding, find ways to do that.”

“(Parenthood is) about recognizing we're flawed humans, we're going to be flawed parents, how can we best help our child (and) not be overly wounded by the flaws we each bring.”

Resources Mentioned:

Book Mentioned:

People Mentioned (Quotes from Wikipedia):

  • Derek Sivers  – “Derek Sivers is an American writer and programmer. A former entrepreneur and musician, he is best known for starting CD Baby. Sivers started CD Baby by accident in 1997 after requests from other independent musicians for him to sell their CDs on his website.”
  • John Bradshaw – “John Elliot Bradshaw was an American educator, counselor, motivational speaker, and author who hosted a number of PBS television programs on topics such as addiction, recovery, codependency, and spirituality.”

Connect with Robert:

Website | Facebook